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	<title>Comments on: The great freelance rate debate continues</title>
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	<description>Freelancing in the Digital Age</description>
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		<title>By: Freelance Rates &#8211; Part 1: Determining Your Worth as a Freelancer : Lillie Ammann, Writer &#38; Editor</title>
		<link>http://michellerafter.com/2009/09/11/the-great-freelance-rate-debate-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-14988</link>
		<dc:creator>Freelance Rates &#8211; Part 1: Determining Your Worth as a Freelancer : Lillie Ammann, Writer &#38; Editor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Apr 2010 08:17:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellerafter.wordpress.com/?p=3620#comment-14988</guid>
		<description>[...] The great freelance rate debate continues, Michelle Rafter, Word Count [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The great freelance rate debate continues, Michelle Rafter, Word Count [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mridu Khullar &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Debate Surrounding Demand Studios</title>
		<link>http://michellerafter.com/2009/09/11/the-great-freelance-rate-debate-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-7689</link>
		<dc:creator>Mridu Khullar &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Debate Surrounding Demand Studios</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 18:58:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellerafter.wordpress.com/?p=3620#comment-7689</guid>
		<description>[...] Also from WordCount: Some novice freelancers see writing for Demand Studios, Examiner.com, Helium and other content aggregators as a legitimate way into the business. They’re willing to put up with working conditions that make more experienced writers cringe: fees of $10 to $20 or less per article that necessitate cranking out dozens, even hundreds, of pieces a month to make a decent living. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Also from WordCount: Some novice freelancers see writing for Demand Studios, Examiner.com, Helium and other content aggregators as a legitimate way into the business. They’re willing to put up with working conditions that make more experienced writers cringe: fees of $10 to $20 or less per article that necessitate cranking out dozens, even hundreds, of pieces a month to make a decent living. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Susan Wells</title>
		<link>http://michellerafter.com/2009/09/11/the-great-freelance-rate-debate-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-5951</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan Wells</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 03:36:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellerafter.wordpress.com/?p=3620#comment-5951</guid>
		<description>Ok, as far as writing goes,  I&#039;m nobody and nobody knows my name.  I self-published a book a few years ago, which is  ranked about 1 millionth on Amazon.  But I love research, and I thought I might like to write something else. And I have very little journalism experience.

So, I looked into a couple of &quot;mills&quot; because I&#039;m stuck at home right now, caring for a sick family member. And, despite my nothingness,  I&#039;m flabbergasted at the compensation being offered.  I honestly can&#039;t conceive of how to possibly do a topic justice for so little pay.

If the topic is not something essential to life or health, then I guess I could make concessions about how well-researched it was, but otherwise, despite my desperation (and you don&#039;t know desperation until you&#039;ve waited 2 years for Social Security disability benefits), I could not, in good conscience, put out half-ass information.

There&#039;s certainly too much of that in the media as is.

And, it didn&#039;t help that I just finished reading the book, &quot;Nickel and Dimed,&quot; so that when I received the first specifications and payment info from ____, all I could think of was, &quot;give me a &#039;W&#039; - an &#039;A&#039; - an &#039;L&#039;, ---- M,A,R,T. 

Were we meant to work our way through college for Wal-Mart wages; was ANYONE meant to work for Wal-Mart wages, for that matter?  Or should we be summoning some guts and the ghosts of Joe Hill and Woody Guthrie right now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, as far as writing goes,  I&#8217;m nobody and nobody knows my name.  I self-published a book a few years ago, which is  ranked about 1 millionth on Amazon.  But I love research, and I thought I might like to write something else. And I have very little journalism experience.</p>
<p>So, I looked into a couple of &#8220;mills&#8221; because I&#8217;m stuck at home right now, caring for a sick family member. And, despite my nothingness,  I&#8217;m flabbergasted at the compensation being offered.  I honestly can&#8217;t conceive of how to possibly do a topic justice for so little pay.</p>
<p>If the topic is not something essential to life or health, then I guess I could make concessions about how well-researched it was, but otherwise, despite my desperation (and you don&#8217;t know desperation until you&#8217;ve waited 2 years for Social Security disability benefits), I could not, in good conscience, put out half-ass information.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s certainly too much of that in the media as is.</p>
<p>And, it didn&#8217;t help that I just finished reading the book, &#8220;Nickel and Dimed,&#8221; so that when I received the first specifications and payment info from ____, all I could think of was, &#8220;give me a &#8216;W&#8217; &#8211; an &#8216;A&#8217; &#8211; an &#8216;L&#8217;, &#8212;- M,A,R,T. </p>
<p>Were we meant to work our way through college for Wal-Mart wages; was ANYONE meant to work for Wal-Mart wages, for that matter?  Or should we be summoning some guts and the ghosts of Joe Hill and Woody Guthrie right now?</p>
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		<title>By: Carson</title>
		<link>http://michellerafter.com/2009/09/11/the-great-freelance-rate-debate-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-1882</link>
		<dc:creator>Carson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 05:30:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellerafter.wordpress.com/?p=3620#comment-1882</guid>
		<description>This is an interesting discussion.  It was an interesting discussion five years ago, too.  The arguments haven&#039;t really changed on either side, the surrounding context has.

Why do I feel a long post in my future...

&quot;In Defense of Content Mills&quot; comes to mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an interesting discussion.  It was an interesting discussion five years ago, too.  The arguments haven&#8217;t really changed on either side, the surrounding context has.</p>
<p>Why do I feel a long post in my future&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;In Defense of Content Mills&#8221; comes to mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Wendy J.</title>
		<link>http://michellerafter.com/2009/09/11/the-great-freelance-rate-debate-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-1725</link>
		<dc:creator>Wendy J.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 12:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellerafter.wordpress.com/?p=3620#comment-1725</guid>
		<description>I agree with Lori&#039;s comment where she says, &quot;If you can get more working a minimum-wage job, it’s a bullshit project.&quot; The one thing I&#039;ve noticed is that some writers will take the less than minimum-wage project over the minimum-wage job just because of one appealing aspect- that they can work from home. 

There are some people that will do anything to make some money while working from home, even handing over a lot of money to a scammer; because they couldn&#039;t see past the stars in their eyes over the &#039;work from home&#039; part of the supposed job.  There are even people who will leave a high-paying job, take a big paycut-just to work from home. 

While I love being able to write from my home, I don&#039;t see how that should be a negotiation tool of some kind to justify a $5 an article, or whatever, job. Of course there are other reasons why people go for the content mill type jobs, but I thought I&#039;d offer my viewpoint.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Lori&#8217;s comment where she says, &#8220;If you can get more working a minimum-wage job, it’s a bullshit project.&#8221; The one thing I&#8217;ve noticed is that some writers will take the less than minimum-wage project over the minimum-wage job just because of one appealing aspect- that they can work from home. </p>
<p>There are some people that will do anything to make some money while working from home, even handing over a lot of money to a scammer; because they couldn&#8217;t see past the stars in their eyes over the &#8216;work from home&#8217; part of the supposed job.  There are even people who will leave a high-paying job, take a big paycut-just to work from home. </p>
<p>While I love being able to write from my home, I don&#8217;t see how that should be a negotiation tool of some kind to justify a $5 an article, or whatever, job. Of course there are other reasons why people go for the content mill type jobs, but I thought I&#8217;d offer my viewpoint.</p>
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		<title>By: Lori</title>
		<link>http://michellerafter.com/2009/09/11/the-great-freelance-rate-debate-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-1716</link>
		<dc:creator>Lori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 19:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellerafter.wordpress.com/?p=3620#comment-1716</guid>
		<description>Actually Michelle, I have to address one point in your post. You even highlighted it in the ad you supplied: &quot;Then you rewrite/summarize the article, adding a few sentences that are specific to our business. &quot;

Here&#039;s the thing - if these writers are taking someone else&#039;s copy, revising it and adding just a smidge more copy? That&#039;s theft. It&#039;s plagiarism to pass someone else&#039;s work off as your own. That&#039;s exactly what these &quot;employers&quot; are asking writers to do.

I had an encounter with one such &quot;employer&quot; who asked me to rewrite articles to &quot;60 percent original.&quot; I didn&#039;t do the research, the interviews, nor did I write the original copy. Any regurgitation of someone else&#039;s work is plagiarism, copyright infringement, theft, take your pick. 

I explained this to her and she actually defending her business model, saying I didn&#039;t &quot;get&quot; the entire process. She mentioned &quot;deep embellishes&quot; and &quot;extensive&quot; revisions. For six bucks an article.

I have two words for that - bite me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually Michelle, I have to address one point in your post. You even highlighted it in the ad you supplied: &#8220;Then you rewrite/summarize the article, adding a few sentences that are specific to our business. &#8221;</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the thing &#8211; if these writers are taking someone else&#8217;s copy, revising it and adding just a smidge more copy? That&#8217;s theft. It&#8217;s plagiarism to pass someone else&#8217;s work off as your own. That&#8217;s exactly what these &#8220;employers&#8221; are asking writers to do.</p>
<p>I had an encounter with one such &#8220;employer&#8221; who asked me to rewrite articles to &#8220;60 percent original.&#8221; I didn&#8217;t do the research, the interviews, nor did I write the original copy. Any regurgitation of someone else&#8217;s work is plagiarism, copyright infringement, theft, take your pick. </p>
<p>I explained this to her and she actually defending her business model, saying I didn&#8217;t &#8220;get&#8221; the entire process. She mentioned &#8220;deep embellishes&#8221; and &#8220;extensive&#8221; revisions. For six bucks an article.</p>
<p>I have two words for that &#8211; bite me.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle V. Rafter</title>
		<link>http://michellerafter.com/2009/09/11/the-great-freelance-rate-debate-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-1698</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle V. Rafter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 22:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellerafter.wordpress.com/?p=3620#comment-1698</guid>
		<description>I agree with you in general, but newspaper jobs are drying up so it&#039;s not the path that it once was. There are those kinds of news jobs available, but they&#039;re online and if you have some technical background (know how to write to the web, can use a Flip camera, etc.), you&#039;re probably better off.

MVR</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you in general, but newspaper jobs are drying up so it&#8217;s not the path that it once was. There are those kinds of news jobs available, but they&#8217;re online and if you have some technical background (know how to write to the web, can use a Flip camera, etc.), you&#8217;re probably better off.</p>
<p>MVR</p>
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		<title>By: Lori</title>
		<link>http://michellerafter.com/2009/09/11/the-great-freelance-rate-debate-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-1687</link>
		<dc:creator>Lori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 13:23:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellerafter.wordpress.com/?p=3620#comment-1687</guid>
		<description>Great post, Michelle. I love these types of debates.

After years of advocating fair pay for writers&#039; skills, I have figured out a simple litmus test to determine a project&#039;s value. If you can get more working a minimum-wage job, it&#039;s a bullshit project. I will never understand why trained, practiced writers (or beginners, for that matter) take on work so low in value that a McDonald&#039;s worker looks like Donald Trump in comparison.

Content mills make a ton of money off your work. They pay you next-to-squat for that work. The only people getting any benefit from your relationship are the people exploiting you. Period. There are other jobs by reputable companies. Go after those.

I&#039;ve long been a proponent of starting in newspapers. Yes, they pay less, but these are CREDIBLE sources - with actual editors looking over your work. There&#039;s a defined audience (unlike the free-for-all on content mill sites).  Also, wire services search newspapers for content. They may pay you very little for your troubles, but any editor looking at your resume is going to be much more impressed by your newspaper credit than the crap that&#039;s been churned out on a content mill site. 

Consider the content mills the floor-length flowery polyester dress of the writing world - the &quot;I give up&quot; look.  The clips that say &quot;I can&#039;t be bothered to put any effort into my career.&quot; Believe me, that&#039;s exactly how editors see those clips.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, Michelle. I love these types of debates.</p>
<p>After years of advocating fair pay for writers&#8217; skills, I have figured out a simple litmus test to determine a project&#8217;s value. If you can get more working a minimum-wage job, it&#8217;s a bullshit project. I will never understand why trained, practiced writers (or beginners, for that matter) take on work so low in value that a McDonald&#8217;s worker looks like Donald Trump in comparison.</p>
<p>Content mills make a ton of money off your work. They pay you next-to-squat for that work. The only people getting any benefit from your relationship are the people exploiting you. Period. There are other jobs by reputable companies. Go after those.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve long been a proponent of starting in newspapers. Yes, they pay less, but these are CREDIBLE sources &#8211; with actual editors looking over your work. There&#8217;s a defined audience (unlike the free-for-all on content mill sites).  Also, wire services search newspapers for content. They may pay you very little for your troubles, but any editor looking at your resume is going to be much more impressed by your newspaper credit than the crap that&#8217;s been churned out on a content mill site. </p>
<p>Consider the content mills the floor-length flowery polyester dress of the writing world &#8211; the &#8220;I give up&#8221; look.  The clips that say &#8220;I can&#8217;t be bothered to put any effort into my career.&#8221; Believe me, that&#8217;s exactly how editors see those clips.</p>
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		<title>By: Coming soon &#8211; WordCount 2.0 &#171; WordCount &#8211; Freelancing in the Digital Age</title>
		<link>http://michellerafter.com/2009/09/11/the-great-freelance-rate-debate-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-1626</link>
		<dc:creator>Coming soon &#8211; WordCount 2.0 &#171; WordCount &#8211; Freelancing in the Digital Age</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 19:02:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellerafter.wordpress.com/?p=3620#comment-1626</guid>
		<description>[...] When I started out, I thought of blogging as a solitary experience. It isn&#8217;t. Good blogs are like good conversations &#8211; stimulating, provocative &#8211; and two-sided. That lesson hit home recently in the very lively debates that have happened here over content sites and the rates they pay. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] When I started out, I thought of blogging as a solitary experience. It isn&#8217;t. Good blogs are like good conversations &#8211; stimulating, provocative &#8211; and two-sided. That lesson hit home recently in the very lively debates that have happened here over content sites and the rates they pay. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://michellerafter.com/2009/09/11/the-great-freelance-rate-debate-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-1627</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 16:14:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellerafter.wordpress.com/?p=3620#comment-1627</guid>
		<description>I am a writer for DS, and yes, I am a novice. However, compared to my day job, writing is an absolute pleasure. The day job pays less and is backed with all kinds of stress, dealing with an idiot for a boss for one. If working for DS can help me quit the day job and pursue writing full-time, it is a dream come true.

There are other perks for me. I&#039;m using my degree and conservation background to write articles in my area of expertise. To revisit this field is worth so much to me since I&#039;m not currently working in conservation.

I am pursuing other endeavors such as finishing my first novel. DS helps me improve my writing. I have money coming in until I sell my book or find other writing assignments. As a blogger, I appreciate the backlinks to my blogs.

I understand the arguments, but the reality is having money to pay the bills and put food on the table. I&#039;d love a $1 a word gig just like anyone else. As I see it, DS is bringing me closer to being a full-time writer. For that, I&#039;m grateful and will continue to write for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a writer for DS, and yes, I am a novice. However, compared to my day job, writing is an absolute pleasure. The day job pays less and is backed with all kinds of stress, dealing with an idiot for a boss for one. If working for DS can help me quit the day job and pursue writing full-time, it is a dream come true.</p>
<p>There are other perks for me. I&#8217;m using my degree and conservation background to write articles in my area of expertise. To revisit this field is worth so much to me since I&#8217;m not currently working in conservation.</p>
<p>I am pursuing other endeavors such as finishing my first novel. DS helps me improve my writing. I have money coming in until I sell my book or find other writing assignments. As a blogger, I appreciate the backlinks to my blogs.</p>
<p>I understand the arguments, but the reality is having money to pay the bills and put food on the table. I&#8217;d love a $1 a word gig just like anyone else. As I see it, DS is bringing me closer to being a full-time writer. For that, I&#8217;m grateful and will continue to write for them.</p>
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