40 responses to “Freelancers, do not write for content aggregators”

  1. pochp

    More and more writers are advising against freelance sites and I think we should. We should not sell our hardwork for just a few cents or dollars. I’ve been victimized by two freelance sites so I should know.

  2. Susan

    Tim, all good points! Of course the most compelling reason of all is that these sites do not have the writer’s financial interests at heart. They are making money off writers and giving them a very, very small piece of the pie. If you want to publish without sending a query, then write a blog! (As both of us have already done, so I know I’m preaching to the choir a bit.) At least then you truly have complete creative control over your platform and how the information is presented to readers. And any money earned from ads or reprints goes in YOUR pocket.

  3. Donald R. Anderson

    What if one mostly writes poetry to send to publications, usually with publicity being the only reward, and no payment whatsoever? Would Helium be a small “step up” from that towards sending to paying publishers? I do avoid poetry.com and many “pay to be read” contests that try to make money from the poets with no substantial reward to the poets.

  4. Jackie Dishner

    Donald,

    Send your poetry to greeting card companies, like Blue Mountain Arts. They pay about $300 for the first poem, and the rate goes up with each successive poem they buy. Even poetry has a paying marketplace–if you search for it. Like any kind of writing, it takes work to find the paying markets, but they’re out there.

    You can call me…

    A paid poet!

  5. Donald R. Anderson

    Thanks Jackie!

    I guess there is a market if I look for it.

  6. milehighfool

    Thanks, all, for your thoughtful comments.

    pochp: So sorry to hear that you’ve been victimized. I’m sure others would be interested in your story if only to prevent further rip-offs.

    Susan: Agree completely. Also, a blog is a good way to showcase your voice. Editors look at the quality and uniqueness of voice in assessing queries. or so I’m told :-)

    Donald: Thanks to Jackie for a great idea. You can also check out the Poet’s Market, which is an adjunct to the annual Writer’s Market guide. More: http://www.poetsmarket.com/

    Thanks again,

    Tim

  7. Louise

    Great post! I’ve often wondered about these sites,and admit there is an appeal if you’re rejection-phobic. But they smack of the ads in the Sunday supplement for a “genuine diamond” ring for “only $5!” If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Thanks for giving us the lowdown. Louise, aka @ThoughtsHappen

  8. Barbara Whitlock

    Hi Tim,

    Just some information to add from Helium directly. I work on staff there.

    1. Editors: Helium has a fleet of editors who help writers. These editors review every newly posted article (this is relatively new). We also have subject matter experts overseeing content areas who have a high sense of ownership over the content there. Finally, we have an open email system where any writer can provide editorial suggestions to writers. Someone sent me one yesterday letting me know that I had a typo and needed to improve the look of my links. Those looking for one-to-one editorial help can write to mentor@helium.com also. So lots of editorial help. Many layers of editorial support are available.

    2. Incentive to improve is built into the competitive model. Leapfrog revisions are not limited, and what encourages writers to improve varies. Many want to improve their rank placement in title groups, and increase writing stars for higher upfront earnings per article.

    Many learn more tricks of the trade for web writing, and turn back to improve their leads, add more SEO value to their article, add metacontent subheaders, etc. Others, just enjoy improving their work.

    3. Clips: All the non-exclusive content published on Helium is clips. If you are selected by a newspaper partner for print publication, these are clips (full byline credit). With exclusive Marketplace content, it is not guaranteed that you’ll be able to use clips, but sometimes you can find them.

    From a traditional freelance perspective everything you say in general about writer’s sites like Helium makes sense. But in a world of shrinking traditional freelance gigs, most writers have found they need to grab all the opportunities they can, and through that aggregate they can keep up with their income needs.

    Helium isn’t a substitute for a full-time job, but it can be combined with other freelance gigs to provide additional revenue.

    Plus, the freedom to also write what you want is appealing for many. Often writers want to demonstrate their expertise in an area, and writing a body of articles helps give weight to that.

    Lots of options, but realize Helium has additive value for writers who freelance full-time. It’s one revenue stream that can help — and it’s fun.

    I’d welcome further discussion on this if anyone is interested: bwhitlock@helium.com.

    Barbara Whitlock
    New Member Outreach Manager
    Helium.com

  9. An Open Letter to Helium « The Social Writer

    [...] as guest writer for Michelle Rafter’s WordCount blog I argued against writing for up-and-coming content aggregators such as Helium. In response, Barbara Whitlock, Helium’s New Member Outreach Manager, posted a [...]

  10. milehighfool

    Hi Barbara,

    Thanks for such a thoughtful response. I’ve addressed a pair of your points in an open letter at my blog. Find it here: http://timbeyers.com/

    For as much as I respect Helium for creating a forum that showcases the talent of as yet-unpublished writers, I’ve a hard time ignoring the consequences of very low pay. I’m very happy to chat about this more live, on email, or via phone.

    Kind regards,

    Tim

  11. Counterpoint: Yes, freelancers should write for Helium « WordCount – Freelancing in the Digital Age

    [...] a comment » Yesterday, long-time freelancers Tim Beyers wrote a guest post here explaining why freelancers shouldn’t write for content aggregators, and he singled out Helium as an [...]

  12. 2nd Annual WordCount Blogathon « WordCount – Freelancing in the Digital Age

    [...] She’s debating financial freelancer Tim Beyers who argued against the practice in his own guest post yesterday. You can see a list of all 40-plus writers in this year’s Blogathon here. For other updates [...]

  13. Ruth Belena

    As Barbara has already pointed out, there are now editors at Helium, and stewards do encourage writers to improve.

    Helium is constantly being updated and seems to be aiming to raise the standard of writing on the site.

    Helium also used fact checkers. Pity Tim Beyers did not check facts before writing his piece!

  14. Helium: Lighter than Air | Blog Salad | Ron S. Doyle - Professional Freelance Writer

    [...] across the Blogathon, the topic of content aggregators like Helium is blowing up. What started as a guest post on Michelle Rafter’s WordCount has spread beyond the cubicle and now it’s about to be chopped up and tossed into the Blog [...]

  15. milehighfool

    Hello Ruth,

    Thanks for your comment. I’m not so sure that the editors Barbara and you refer to and the ones I refer to are anything more than distant relatives.

    Certainly there are fact checkers and editors at Helium who have the right to edit stories for accuracy and clarity. That isn’t the same as having an editor work with you as the story develops.

    Certainly I could be wrong. I see from your blog that you advise others on how to make money writing for Helium. Do you have any good stories about working with a Helium editor?

    Numbers would also be great, if you’re willing to share. How much of your living is made writing for Helium and how much time to do you spend there? I really would love it if Helium were a viable source of income for full-time freelancers.

    Thanks again and best regards,

    Tim
    The Social Writer – experimenting with social media, one word at a time

  16. Novice freelancers, instead of Helium, try hyperlocal « WordCount – Freelancing in the Digital Age

    [...] spilled onto the pages of this blog. First long-time freelancer Tim Beyers examined the reasons why a writer shouldn’t bother with content aggregators. Then Helium’s new writer outreach manager Barbara Whitlock countered with her own detailed [...]

  17. Freelancedom » Blog Archive » Link Love: May 29

    [...] WordCount’s Freelancers: Do Not Write for Content Aggregators [...]

  18. Writer games Examiner.com to make a point about content aggregators « WordCount – Freelancing in the Digital Age

    [...] and how much money writers can make. Several freelancers countered her with arguments explaining why they won’t write for content aggregators or why they did and wouldn’t again. I even chimed in with my own advice to write for a [...]

  19. 2 Lessons Learned During the Blogathon « The Social Writer

    [...] a confession: Although I knew that taking a stand against writing for content aggregators would generate clicks, I didn’t expect that it would touch off a debate. But it did. Post [...]

  20. What I’m Writing Next: June Editorial Calendar « The Social Writer

    [...] of fellow freelancer Michelle Rafter. “Sometimes topics take on a life of their own – like the content aggregator debate you referred to – and you have to go with the flow,” Michelle [...]

  21. 5 Must-Follow Bloggers for Aspiring Writers « The Social Writer

    [...] WordCount blogathon.  We traded blogs for a day during this year’s event. Read all about it here and [...]

  22. Freelance-ology: My Helium Experiment Begins | Blog Salad | Ron S. Doyle - Professional Freelance Writer

    [...] A couple weeks ago Tim Beyers, a far-more-successful-yet-nonetheless-fellow freelance writer, took a flying drop kick a the virtual hornet’s nest that is content aggregation while guest blogging for WordCount’s Michelle Rafter. [...]

  23. The Renegade Writer Blog » Blog Archive » Should You Write for Content Aggregators?

    [...] about the pros and cons of content aggregators like Helium. Long-time freelancer Tim Beyers gives three big reasons writers should not work for content aggregators. Barbara Whitlock, Helium’s new member outreach manager, replied (guess what?) in favor of [...]

  24. Allie

    I’m just curious as to whether Ms. Whitlock and other full-time Helium staffers work for the same pay given to the writers? I think if they were to be honest with themselves and with us they’d admit that they would never dream of working for those rates. In fact, I’ll bet they take home actual, real paychecks with benefits and everything – and it’s the writers who are willing to work for peanut crumbs that make that possible. No wonder they’re trying to talk up the great “opportunity.”

  25. Barbara Whitlock

    Allie,

    I’m not sure how much of the discussion you read above, but I’ve clarified repeatedly that freelancing on Helium alone would not suffice for a full-time salary.

    For freelancers writing full time, they need to piece together lots of gigs to full in all the puzzle pieces for a full-time salary. Helium can be one of those puzzle pieces.

    For others already meeting primary income needs Helium might add moonlighting income.

    I do write for Helium, but as a staff member I cannot collect payment for those articles. If, however, I was no longer working for Helium on staff, I’d love to collect on my article earnings.

    Barbara Whitlock
    New Member Outreach Manager
    Helium.com
    bwhitlock@helium.com

  26. Thomas Pellechia

    Ms. Whitlock,

    You must be good at what you do…you are good at making what you say seem reasonable. Liek the below statement, for instance:

    “but I’ve clarified repeatedly that freelancing on Helium alone would not suffice for a full-time salary.”

    Of course not, especially if you add up the hourly rate that Helium winds up paying. The point is not that Helium should be a part time market paying full time, but that it should be a market that when added to the hours it takes to write, produces a reasonable hourly rate.

    Then, you say this:

    “For others already meeting primary income needs Helium might add moonlighting income.”

    True enough, but it’s still going to be at low hourly rates.

    Based on some of the stuff I’ve read on helium, in my area of writing, you are indeed getting what you pay for the stuff. One so-called ‘history of’ piece is a piece of crib notes, for which I wouldn’t pay either.

  27. Allie

    Ms. Whitlock,
    I did read the entire discussion above. But all the pretty words about “freelancing” for Helium don’t change the fact that the math doesn’t work. For five years, I’ve supported myself as a freelancer, working for real clients who actually pay respectable rates, none of which pay my bills alone. But together, they do.

    The math suggests that even working full-time hours writing for Helium not only wouldn’t pay all my bills, it probably wouldn’t even pay one-tenth of, say, my electric bill. Forget the mortgage.

    In order for “freelancing” for Helium to be part of the mix for a writer, the rest of that writer’s clients would have to pay very high rates to subsidize the pretty much free work for Helium. My point was that if Helium can afford to hire people full time with benefits, but still chooses to pay its writers in pennies and vague promises about how it will all pay off years down the road, Helium is treating its writers very unfairly.

    Allie

  28. Was I Wrong About Helium? « The Social Writer

    [...] I wrong to tell my fellow freelancers to not write for content aggregators? Recently, I sold a reprint of an article that I first wrote for Helium to Hope Clark for her [...]

  29. The Renegade Writer Blog » Blog Archive » A New Term: Writer Mills

    [...] Michelle Rafter’s WordCount blog, Tim Beyers writes “Freelancers. do not write for content aggregators.” As a counterpoint on the same blog, Barbara Whitlock, Helium’s new member outreach manager, [...]

  30. 10 things J.K. Rowling taught me about writing « WordCount – Freelancing in the Digital Age

    [...] may explain why many beginning writers flock sell themselves short by working for a pittance for less-than stellar publishers and websites. Could someone replicate Rowling’s rise to author stardom given what it takes to get a book [...]

  31. Cyn Lee

    Writing for Helium may not add up to a full time paycheck for some, however it certainly is a good way to get a few bills paid every month. You get out of it, what you put in. If you have talent, it equals $$$$$.
    If you seek talent, you’ll find it a non-financial learning experience. That alone may be worth it.

  32. Freelance tribes « WordCount – Freelancing in the Digital Age

    [...] have covered the New York Times’ decision to have columnists teach online classes, writing for content aggregators and hyperlocal [...]

  33. allpointswest

    Hi Tim

    A wise article indeed, I will add a further point, Helium will not delete your work from the site if you ask them and they seem to have the power to lock you out, use another name for your work, leaving you without access to it and with any money (albeit small)
    garnered, well, they keep that too. They are on a daily basis controvening personal copyright law, but that does not seem to bother them, a search across the internet will find many writers who have fallen foul of this. I would not reccommend Helium under any circumstance!

  34. Barbara Whitlock

    Helium’s User Agreements specifically states that you grant Helium non-exclusive use rights for content you submit to the regular site and exclusive rights to content in Marketplace. This is something all writers agree upon registering for Helium.

    Those who violate the User Agreement can be banned from the site. If someone has put up an inappropriate name on Helium, we would change this to something more appropriate.

    Helium does not violate copyright, as you always retain copyright for your work on the site.

    I’m sorry you were banned from Helium, but it might be more fair to specify what you were banned for. Many writers are banned for plagiarism, inappropriate content, substandard content or behavior that violates the norms for respectful community dialogue.

    Barbara

  35. Deborah

    I just had to add my comment on this discussion. I started out on Helium and left due to the system changes they made. I had articles that were #2 out of 200+ for over two years. When they made the “rating star compensation rule” not only did my well-written articles get “bumped” a far cry away from their long-standing positions but I lost my silver creative writing badge and a hard-earned rating star. After that I despised Helium for its inefficient and incorrect rating system and left permanently. I am now a moderately successful freelance writer. I am doing projects for both corporate and private clients and earning residually through sites such as Suite101. I think this is a statement. Go for the real opportunities. Ignore companies that pay crumbs and stick to things you know will earn decent money for you.

  36. Michelle Rafter

    Thanks for weighing in on this and please let me know if you’d be willing to share your story, I’m sure other writers could benefit from your experiences.

    MVR

  37. Michelle Rafter

    And I’d much rather line my pocket than Helium’s or Associated Content’s, etc., etc.

    MVR

  38. Michelle Rafter

    I’ll ask Tim B. to weigh in on that one, as I’m not at all familiar with poetry markets.

    MVR

  39. Michelle Rafter

    Interesting observation.

    MVR

Leave a Reply